From the New York Times, this is the interview.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.

As one of the most popular websites in the world, Wikipedia helps define our common understanding

of just about everything.

But recently, the site has gone from public utility to a favorite target

of Elon Musk, congressional Republicans, and MAGA influencers who all claim that Wikipedia is

biased. In many ways, those debates over Wikipedia are a microcosm of bigger discussions we're

having right now about consensus, civil disagreement, shared reality, truth, facts, all those little easy topics.

A bit of history. Wikipedia was founded back in the Paleolithic era of the internet in 2001 by Larry Sanger and Jimmy Wales.

It was always operated as a non-profit,

and it employs a decentralized system of editing by volunteers,

most of whom do so anonymously.

There are rules over how people should engage on the site, cordially,

and how changes are made, transparently.

And it's led to a culture of civil disagreement that has made

Wikipedia what some have called the last best place on the internet. Now, with that culture

under threat, Jimmy Wales has written a book called The Seven Rules of Trust, trying to take the lessons

of Wikipedia's success and apply them to our increasingly partisan trust-depleted world.

And I have to say, I did come in skeptical of his prescriptions, but I left hoping he's right.

Here's my conversation with Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales.

I wanted to talk to you because I think this is a very tenuous moment for trust,

and your new book is all about that.

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