From the New York Times, this is the interview.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.

Most academics do not become global celebrities.

But in 2010, Brune Brown, a longtime professor of social work at the University of Houston, gave

a TEDx talk about her research on shame, empathy, and courage called The Power of Vulnerability.

In it, she made the case for why people should get comfortable with being uncomfortable,

and it turned her life upside down.

15 years later, that TED Talk is still one of the most viewed ever,

and Brown has become a kind of guru for millions of people all over the world,

who devotedly follow her writings, podcasts, and TV specials. That's not always a role she's comfortable in,

as she and I discussed. In recent years, Brown has turned her focus to corporate settings.

She runs a consulting practice where she works with CEOs, and she's written a new book about

leadership called Strong Ground. It's about what makes a good leader,

but it's also about this moment

of intense technological and cultural upheaval we're in

and how the ideas she spent her career preaching about

might be able to help us weather it.

Here's my conversation with Brunei Brown.

Music Here's my conversation with Bray Brown. Bray, you are known for your work sort of mapping, explaining human emotions.

And especially around shame, vulnerability.

You're also at this moment, though, a leadership consultant who brings those ideas to various

workplaces from the NFL to the military to the Fortune 500. And one of the things that I wanted

...